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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 5, 2008 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: WOW, Look how far we've come.

So many emotions last night.

I am old enough to remember the march at Selma, the police dogs and firehoses in Montgomery and Birmingham, "Bull" Connor, George Wallace, the civil rights movement, "I Have A Dream" Martin Luther King, RFK, the '68 democratic convention, the race riots in Watts, Detroit and New Haven in the 60's and LA in the 90's. I remember Kent State and so many other seminal moments in our political and racial landscape in the last 50 years.

As an old white guy, I was tremendously moved that this country could push aside traditional differences, color and prejudices to make history and make our country the first "western" country to elect a non-white person to lead them. I never thought that I would see this in my lifetime. I am particularly impressed with the youth of the country. They came out in record numbers and had an effect on the outcome. This is also a testimonial to their parents' generation (Baby Boomers, like myself) who, by and large, tried to raise our chidren to judge people by the content of their character and nothing else. I am also so proud of my 19 y/o son Dylan and 16 y/o daughter Mariah. Dylan goes to school at CU in Boulder and volunteered for the Obama campaign and cast his first presidential vote yesterday. Mariah stayed up with me all night and watched the returns and jumped up and cheered when the results were final.

Seeing the gathering in Chicago last night I was struck by the complete diversity of the crowd, every color, creed and lifestyle appeared to be represented.

To me, one of the most poignant images was seeing Jesse Jackson in the crowd with tears streaming down his face. No matter what your opinion of Jackson is, he and his contemporaries like Andrew Young and John Lewis have been through so much over the years and have seen so much ugliness. They cut their political teeth in the days of Jim Crow, marched by MLK's side (Jackson and Young were actually with King at the Motel in Memphis when he was assassinated), and saw so many atrocities commited against people, just because of their skin. How moving for them to see this defining moment that came to be, in no small part, through their work and the sacrifices and efforts of so many millions of Americans of all races and creeds.

To them and so many African Americans, this must have been the most amazing day in their lives. Imagine how it must feel to be able to look your children and grand children directly in their eyes and know that you are finally telling the truth when you tell them that in America, the opportunities are limitless, and yes, ANYBODY can grow up to become president of the United States Of America.

Thanks for indulging me with these last few posts.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2008-11-05 21:13:00

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Nov 5, 2008 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Man, white folks will never, ever recognize the indignity this world has placed on blacks. Even our recognition of this huge hurdle is probably doubted as some kind of placating conspiracy played by the political system.

I couldn't be more proud of our country as I am at this moment, casting aside at minimum the legacy of race. I live in a very segregated area and the optimism evident on the face of every black person I met with today was worth eating a little political shit for.

Then I got to thinking about the folks that Obama appealed to, even pandered to. The quality of my life under ANY president has never improved or declined to the point of discomfort or elation. NONE have made me beholding to their party for anything other than supporting them on principle.

My guess, which is my fear, is that Obama may have his whole race riding on his promises to uplift and deliver. I'd hate to have to weigh the expectations of that waiting public over the comparative needs of my own. I think that in some parts of the public there is the certain, yet mistaken belief that he will deliver in messianic proportions, and when found to only be a president, will have fallen short.



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Poster: kochman Date: Nov 6, 2008 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-steele5-2008nov05,0,6553798.story

An interesting article from Shelby Steele for the LA Times. Read it. For those of you who don't know who Shelby Steele is, he is a conservative african american.

This post was modified by kochman on 2008-11-06 17:23:08

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2008 9:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Black? conservative?? well that makes him a sell out and a traitor to his race. Everyone knows Republicans have always put the black man down. People Like JCWatts, Clarance Thomas, Condoleezza Rice, all a bunch of Republican Uncle Toms

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Poster: kochman Date: Nov 6, 2008 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

I will wade through the sarcasm... since I am no stranger to it myself.

Did you read it? It really brings up a great point...

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2008 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Very good article...I'll paste it here.
I've read and posted about a few of his commentaries..
Common sense and truthful...read on

Obama's post-racial promise

Barack Obama seduced whites with a vision of their racial innocence precisely to coerce them into acting out of a racial motivation.
By Shelby Steele
November 5, 2008

For the first time in human history, a largely white nation has elected a black man to be its paramount leader. And the cultural meaning of this unprecedented convergence of dark skin and ultimate power will likely become -- at least for a time -- a national obsession. In fact, the Obama presidency will always be read as an allegory. Already we are as curious about the cultural significance of his victory as we are about its political significance.

Does his victory mean that America is now officially beyond racism? Does it finally complete the work of the civil rights movement so that racism is at last dismissible as an explanation of black difficulty? Can the good Revs. Jackson and Sharpton now safely retire to the seashore? Will the Obama victory dispel the twin stigmas that have tormented black and white Americans for so long -- that blacks are inherently inferior and whites inherently racist? Doesn't a black in the Oval Office put the lie to both black inferiority and white racism? Doesn't it imply a "post-racial" America? And shouldn't those of us -- white and black -- who did not vote for Mr. Obama take pride in what his victory says about our culture even as we mourn our political loss?

Answering no to such questions is like saying no to any idealism; it seems callow. How could a decent person not hope for all these possibilities, or not give America credit for electing its first black president? And yet an element of Barack Obama's success was always his use of the idealism implied in these questions as political muscle. His talent was to project an idealized vision of a post-racial America -- and then to have that vision define political decency. Thus, a failure to support Obama politically implied a failure of decency.

Obama's special charisma -- since his famous 2004 convention speech -- always came much more from the racial idealism he embodied than from his political ideas. In fact, this was his only true political originality. On the level of public policy, he was quite unremarkable. His economics were the redistributive axioms of old-fashioned Keynesianism; his social thought was recycled Great Society. But all this policy boilerplate was freshened up -- given an air of "change" -- by the dreamy post-racial and post-ideological kitsch he dressed it in.

This worked politically for Obama because it tapped into a deep longing in American life -- the longing on the part of whites to escape the stigma of racism. In running for the presidency -- and presenting himself to a majority white nation -- Obama knew intuitively that he was dealing with a stigmatized people. He knew whites were stigmatized as being prejudiced, and that they hated this situation and literally longed for ways to disprove the stigma.

Obama is what I have called a "bargainer" -- a black who says to whites, "I will never presume that you are racist if you will not hold my race against me." Whites become enthralled with bargainers out of gratitude for the presumption of innocence they offer. Bargainers relieve their anxiety about being white and, for this gift of trust, bargainers are often rewarded with a kind of halo.

Obama's post-racial idealism told whites the one thing they most wanted to hear: America had essentially contained the evil of racism to the point at which it was no longer a serious barrier to black advancement. Thus, whites became enchanted enough with Obama to become his political base. It was Iowa -- 95% white -- that made him a contender. Blacks came his way only after he won enough white voters to be a plausible candidate.

Of course, it is true that white America has made great progress in curbing racism over the last 40 years. I believe, for example, that Colin Powell might well have been elected president in 1996 had he run against a then rather weak Bill Clinton. It is exactly because America has made such dramatic racial progress that whites today chafe so under the racist stigma. So I don't think whites really want change from Obama as much as they want documentation of change that has already occurred. They want him in the White House first of all as evidence, certification and recognition.

But there is an inherent contradiction in all this. When whites -- especially today's younger generation -- proudly support Obama for his post-racialism, they unwittingly embrace race as their primary motivation. They think and act racially, not post-racially. The point is that a post-racial society is a bargainer's ploy: It seduces whites with a vision of their racial innocence precisely to coerce them into acting out of a racial motivation. A real post-racialist could not be bargained with and would not care about displaying or documenting his racial innocence. Such a person would evaluate Obama politically rather than culturally.

Certainly things other than bargaining account for Obama's victory. He was a talented campaigner. He was reassuringly articulate on many issues -- a quality that Americans now long for in a president. And, in these last weeks, he was clearly pushed over the top by the economic terrors that beset the nation. But it was the peculiar cultural manipulation of racial bargaining that brought him to the political dance. It inflated him as a candidate, and it may well inflate him as a president.

There is nothing to suggest that Obama will lead America into true post-racialism. His campaign style revealed a tweaker of the status quo, not a revolutionary. Culturally and racially, he is likely to leave America pretty much where he found her.

But what about black Americans? Won't an Obama presidency at last lead us across a centuries-old gulf of alienation into the recognition that America really is our country? Might this milestone not infuse black America with a new American nationalism? And wouldn't this be revolutionary in itself? Like most Americans, I would love to see an Obama presidency nudge things in this direction. But the larger reality is the profound disparity between black and white Americans that will persist even under the glow of an Obama presidency. The black illegitimacy rate remains at 70%. Blacks did worse on the SAT in 2000 than in 1990. Fifty-five percent of all federal prisoners are black, though we are only 13% of the population. The academic achievement gap between blacks and whites persists even for the black middle class. All this disparity will continue to accuse blacks of inferiority and whites of racism -- thus refueling our racial politics -- despite the level of melanin in the president's skin.

The torture of racial conflict in America periodically spits up a new faith that idealism can help us "overcome" -- America's favorite racial word. If we can just have the right inspiration, a heroic role model, a symbolism of hope, a new sense of possibility. It is an American cultural habit to endure our racial tensions by periodically alighting on little islands of fresh hope and idealism. But true reform, like the civil rights victories of the '60s, never happens until people become exhausted with their suffering. Then they don't care who the president is.

Presidents follow the culture; they don't lead it. I hope for a competent president.

Shelby Steele is an author, columnist and senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Nov 7, 2008 1:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

A very interesting point of view and probably true on some level but I'm not so sure that the points made in it were as influential as he makes them look. I for one, and I think there are many others, would have voted for just about anyone who looked like they were not going to continue most of the Bush, and current Republican parties, domestic, and even more so for me, foreign policies. I'm afraid McCain, and especially Palin, looked like they were going to do just that, had they have won.
My belief and probably one of the biggest reasons I voted for Obama is that the republicans needed a good kick in the butt to get them to possibly start thinking about what is supposed to be the fundamentals of their party. Might want to start talking to Ron Paul who had some good new ideas too. At least in this gun toting, conservative-liberal, tree hugging, deadhead, rednecks, opinion. Peace

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Poster: kochman Date: Nov 7, 2008 7:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Good points Baronsong. I agree with you.
I think he wasn't referring to every single vote for Braack, but rather to the people who were clearly enamored by Obama... such as the media, and many who hold/held him up as this amazing dude.
I said at the end of the primary, only a fool on the Democrat side couldn't win after what the Bush era has done.

So, can we call this victory a vast left wing conspiracy? Haha. I am kidding! Just thought a good Hillary joke was in order.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Nov 7, 2008 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Yea it's funny thing, the media that is, and I don't hold to the left wing media conspiracy thing at all, after all they were a major force in getting Bush in the spotlight way back in 97 or 98 I think it was. There's a lot to be said on this I believe, but until my thinking and facts are fully formed I'm not going to go into it because I'm sure there are more informed ideas out there.
Anyway that said the best thing is I believe that there is hope or expectation that Our next President will do better and that can't be all bad.

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Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Nov 5, 2008 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Although I entirely share your sentiments, I am also anxious. Let's not spend too much time basking in self-indulgent optimism. Remember how the powers on the right treated the last two charismatic liberal presidents (Clinton and Kennedy). We need to stop beaming as soon as we can, and roll up our sleeves for the hard struggle that will start soon. Government may be temporarily in the hands of the good guys, but the economy and the media are not. Their walls are made of cannonballs and their motto is...

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 5, 2008 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come - with our first Affirmative Action Prez

"charismatic liberal presidents"
haha! NOT Clinton, fer sure! A lot of used car salesmen are charismatic when they are trying to weave bullshit into cotton. Imo, Clinton was a disgrace to the presidency. Maybe you and your lib sidekicks think he was all that, but that glib piece of shit never fooled me.
I suppose you think the "right" killed John Kennedy(?)..but your not that stupid. Hell, conservatives quote him big time and revere JFK. Hmmm...do you mean fat Ted?...drives and votes like a moron?..another deranged lib.
Good luck Obama! With your trickle-up poverty

This post was modified by rastamon on 2008-11-05 22:03:32

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 5, 2008 2:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

My hope now is that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid can keep the crooked liars at arms length and truly try to heal the rift that exists in the country.

Obama won on the backs of the moderate who know that reality has a liberal bias.

As for "self-indulgent" hope, I think Nader and Matt Gonzalez had a lot of good points in articles published on Counterpunch.com:
http://www.counterpunch.org/gonzalez10292008.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader11032008.html

But I like John Lennon's voice near the end of "All You Need is Love:"

"yes you can"



This post was modified by spacedface on 2008-11-05 22:20:33

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Nov 5, 2008 3:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7128qEAUeOA

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2008 6:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

NC, that is David Ring - he was born with Cerebral Palsy - to think that someone would think because he is sharing his faith - Christian faith - and some would mock him? Only those with no compassion!

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Poster: BiscoBoy Date: Nov 6, 2008 6:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

"In a world where people have problems
In this world where decisions are a way of life
Other peoples problems, they overwhelm my mind
They say compassion is a virtue, but I dont have the time"

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Nov 6, 2008 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Take it away rasta!

Dude, I am just posting random links from youtube because no matter what I say, how I say it or who is listening, they still think it's "false information,slogans and lying talking points" so I have given up trying to have an intelligent debate on the facts. Opinions are like assholes and there tons of opinions in here.

I hereby bestow you with the task of trying to reason with people who will never agree with you on principle, regardless if you are right or wrong. Any feeling you have is invalid, any fact you provide is ignored and attempt you make at meeting in the middle will be repulsed, it's pointless. Anyone who is not far left liberal is labeled a racist, primitive jesus freak and there is nothing you can do about it.

I would never put up a video like that and make fun of handicapped people like that, but I have used the word retarded since I was little and will continue to do so even after it's a hate crime, sorry. I don't even think that guy is retarded, doesn't he have MS or something?

I understand people have different opinions and views on things but when the other side refuses to acknowledge that you even have a right or reason to think the way you do, we are in deep shit my friends. When you provide valid facts (including personal experience, history, photographs,etc) to support your argument and the other person puts them in the same category as nazi moon bases and reptilian president theories, while gladly chomping at the bit of their own side's propaganda and vivid imagination induced OPINION'S then we are in a position where our democracy is irrelevant and useless.

The election is over, I have no interest or involvment in politics now or in the future. Both parties are a joke, consider me offically disgruntled, not that obama one, but that his supporters and advocates won't be gracious in defeat or victory and will not be inclusive at all. I do not remember republicans people being so annoying after bush won and that was a long drawn out ordeal that heard nerves rattled and frayed. I do remember the whining and conspiracies and nastiness from the losers though and it's time we proved ourselves better than that and let them have their shortlived victory. The stock market and world events will prove who was wrong or right so it's time to let go and get out of careers like mine that will be impossible to continue in, roll your 401k's into IRA's before they become government mandated SSI credits, stop supporting talk radio if they are forced into mandated formats, stock up on canned goods and get a low paying job and reap the benefits and above all stop whining and telling people your political views they will only cause you conflict and discrimination.

It has caused my stepdaughter to be called a racist at school by a black kid because she didn't pick obama in the mock election because she thought the old guy was more experienced like her grandfather, go figure. It has caused people to vandalise a black person's house who had the only obama sign for miles around. It should put hustlers and conmen like sharpton and jackson out of business but there are still white men in power so it will never end. It should put to rest the racists claims that all black people are stupid, but there are still people who make genralizations (I can name a few on here right now) about large groups of people... it's called ignorance. Oh well, I guess two wrongs do make a right in today's world. An eye for an eye I suppose.

If the liberals want to alienate the moderates and conservatives let them do it and see what a divided country does in the pages of history, just keep in mind the republicans won the first time they decided to split up, I am sure they would again and guess what? They would impose that nasty union thing and force us to get along again, ASSHOLES!

Give it up man, save your self the high blood pressure med bill, I know I don't have insurance so I can't afford it. I donate blood to check my cholestorol, you do what you have to do. I use the blood pressure machine at the grocery store and wikipedia to address my mental disorders! For self flagelation I come here and read posts...

Peace out and good luck with that civilility crap, I will just post links to strange videos like they do to me when I try to promote a free song in here.

Attachment: Sunset.jpg

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2008 8:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Take it away rasta!

i was posting those comments for anyone who may want to poke fun or considered him a religious retard...poke at religion? fine, but not him. Now-now-now, Rev Wright is a different matter-indeed. (If Obama has the courage, he'll have his minister and friend do the oath of office)
Somehow, a LOT of folks with MS are some of the happiest, gentle people I know...
As far as politic's, think I'll retire from that after my pouts over-haha.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Nov 6, 2008 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Jedi Mind Trickery

These aren't the droids you are looking for, move along.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 6, 2008 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jedi Mind Trickery

http://www.archive.org/download/gd1985-09-07.schoeps.oade.sacks.29305.sbeok.flac16/gd85-09-07oade-d1t06_64kb.mp3

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Nov 6, 2008 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jedi Mind Trickery

http://www.archive.org/details/buddwyerandthecannabinoids

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2008 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Do I at least get a footnote?

Obama can start casting his legacy now - even though I didn't vote for him - I truly hope he delivers the healing and unification he has promised. But he won't if he hitches his cart to Pelosi and Reid.

Pelosi and Reid are disgusting professional politicians who have worked harder to create the rifts that exist than to accomplish any meaningful legislation. They are demonstrably incapable of any healing effort. And just so you know where I stand, the far right fucks in the House and Senate are in the same class of dip shit professional politician.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 5, 2008 2:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Yeah, I am a liberal lefty of immense proportions, but Pelosi really makes me gag.

Sorry if that was inappropriate.

I hope Obama does great. I hope everyone gets beyond two parties. I hope special interests are deflated. I hope that the rich get richer and the poor get a hand, just a small one, but enough of one that the rich keep getting rich, but everyone else does come along with the trickle down, and I hope we all think of ways to move the human race a step forward, just like Jerry wanted...

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2008 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: WOW, Look how far we've come.

Great post PG.

Even though I voted for McCain, I couldn't help but feel a great deal of pride in our country last night. Last night is exactly what I spent 24 years in uniform for.

My hope now is that Obama can keep Pelosi and Reid at arms length and truly try to heal the rift that exists in the country. He won on the backs of moderate, centrist Dems and if he were to kick the far left and far right to the curb he would garner my unfailing support and respect.

Time will tell.

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